Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority
Ms CROZIER (Southern Metropolitan) (13:34): My question is to the Minister for Emergency Services. Minister, you told the Parliament on 23 February in relation to Mr Grant’s case, where he sadly died whilst waiting for over 40 minutes for an ambulance, that ‘ESTA did everything that was required of them in relation to that case’. It was revealed last week that ESTA call scripts were modified in October 2021, with the changes aiming to provide callers with realistic expectations in relation to ambulance response. But Mrs Grant has recounted saying that her husband was having trouble breathing and that the ESTA worker’s response was ‘What do you mean?’. Minister, your government continues to fail Victorians, and sadly they are dying because of your inaction. How do you explain an ESTA caller asking ‘What do you mean?’ to Mrs Grant’s information on the call about her husband’s condition, following the review of ESTA’s call scripts last October?
Ms SYMES (Northern Victoria—Leader of the Government, Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (13:35): Ms Crozier, this is obviously a distressing case for the family, with the loss of Mr Grant, and I know that my condolences are extended to his family members. It is a collaboration between our emergency services personnel, our agencies and ESTA in relation to the material that call takers are provided and what they should be asking to ensure that the most appropriate response is delivered.
We are ranging a little bit into opinion here. I am familiar with the details of the case, but it is inappropriate for me to go into that in a commentary sense in the chamber. But I think that when the person who takes the call has to try and determine what response is required, they are blind. They cannot see what is happening to the person on the other end of the phone or indeed to the person they are being called for, so it is appropriate to seek as much information as possible. If you articulate that someone is having breathing difficulties, that could be on a fairly large range from minor to severe. In order to obtain the most appropriate information so that the level and the category are appropriate—so that we are not inadvertently sending ambulances to every single call, which would indeed clog up the system and mean that the most urgent cases do not receive the appropriate response—call taker scripts are informed by clinical people and experts in this space. I am sure these conversations continue to occur and reflect on people’s experiences, and Mr Grant and his family’s experience is no different.
But I continue to talk about the amazing people at ESTA. When I visit, I get to plug in and listen to them, and they answer those calls. I get goosebumps. It is an incredibly stressful job. These people are awesome. They are calm, they provide expert advice and they provide the best possible response they can based on the information that they can obtain from the people on the other end of the phone.
Ms CROZIER (Southern Metropolitan) (13:38): I agree with the minister in relation to the work that the ESTA callers are doing under very significant, stressful additions. Over January there were only three or so callers at one time—
Ms Symes interjected.
Ms CROZIER: Well, how many were on? I would like the truthful answer, but that has not been forthcoming. Minister, a letter from Ambulance Victoria (AV) to Mr Grant’s family states:
… regarding your father’s condition, the call was coded for a response within 30 minutes.
This clearly was a category 1 condition that was very severe—
Ms Symes interjected.
Ms CROZIER: Well, he died. So again paramedics were said to be calling back after a significant amount of time. These instances keep coming. Why are these failures continuing to happen in Victoria and Victorians are continuing to die?
Ms Tierney interjected.
Ms SYMES (Northern Victoria—Leader of the Government, Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (13:39): Where I begin, Ms Tierney, is to say that using a really sad example and saying this is an endemic situation that is happening to everyone who calls is frankly wrong. I have said in this place it is unacceptable for anyone to have problems with call delays et cetera. What you are talking about is the clinical determination of the appropriate response to a particular call taker. I am not a medical expert. I am not trained, and the people on the phones are. The information they are provided with informs the response required. Quite often what happens is a call taker will do their best and then it goes to the next stage, which is the RefCom team, which is the AV team, which then goes into greater detail about specific cases, and that is particularly valuable when it is a complex case where it is difficult to determine how severe it is. In relation to how this case was categorised, the advice I have received from ESTA is that it was appropriate for this case.