Thursday, 23 March 2023

LGBTIQ+ equality

David LIMBRICK (South-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:30): (104) My question is for the Minister for Equality. The minister would know that I have a strong interest in the defence of the rights of Victorians; indeed it has been one of my main sources of disagreement with the government over the last few years. My question to the minister is this: do the rights of biological women and transgender women sometimes come into conflict?

The PRESIDENT: I am just concerned, Mr Limbrick, that you are asking for an opinion. Would you like to change the terminology?

David LIMBRICK: Thank you, President. The minister gave a ministers statement on Tuesday on the issue of transgender women’s rights. Let me rephrase the question. What is the minister doing to find solutions for potential conflicts between biological women and transgender women?

Harriet SHING (Eastern Victoria – Minister for Water, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Commonwealth Games Legacy, Minister for Equality) (12:31): Thank you, Mr Limbrick, for that question. I do note your very well articulated and well understood position on these matters. I have talked at length about the importance of making sure that vulnerable cohorts of Victorians are given the respect and the support and the visibility that they deserve and which we all should ideally enjoy.

There has for a long time been a tension, not of the creation of the trans and gender-diverse communities but of others, to seek to create a divide between people who are from our LGBTIQ+ communities and people who are not. It is a really dangerous distinction to my mind to be drawing, not just because what it does do is perhaps permit or encourage the stigma that we as LGBTIQ+ people live with but also because it seeks to excuse conversations in the name of civilised debate or different views that are, at their heart, about saying that one particular group within our community should have lesser rights to participate in a range of activities that we all take for granted – for example, being able to apply for a job and actually get it without your gender or gender identity or sexuality being part of a decision not to employ you, being able to retain your job, being able to participate in sport, being able to access health care and being able to access documentation that reflects your identity and is therefore necessary for international travel and for the dignity of participating in decision-making on everything from filling out forms to the way that you open your wallet and see yourself reflected on the various cards that you carry with you.

It is so important that we understand in these conversations the disadvantage and the stigma that are not just caused but are perpetuated and augmented by a conversation on this conflict between rights. It ignores the overwhelming views of Australians and indeed of Victorians that trans people should have the same rights as others to participate in everyday life and be given the same opportunities and indeed protections at law to do that wherever it is a thing that is required to be done. Again, really importantly, I want to see that any conversations about trans rights are done in a way that actually recognises the damage that they cause and recognises the desire for trans people simply to be able to live in the same way as everybody else.

David LIMBRICK (South-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:34): I thank the minister for her answer. It sounded to me from your answer – and I do not want to put words in your mouth – that you do not see that there is a conflict, because to my mind it looks like there may be situations where there are conflicts and where the government may need to look for solutions on how to manage and deal with those conflicts.

The PRESIDENT: That was a statement, but I think the minister is prepared to respond.

Harriet SHING (Eastern Victoria – Minister for Water, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Commonwealth Games Legacy, Minister for Equality) (12:35): Thank you, President. The nature of conflict in this particular issue, to my mind and indeed as articulated by this government and by a range of other people not just in Victoria but around Australia and the world, is that this conflict arises because there are people and organisations and groups, none of which I will name here, who think that trans rights should be able to be compromised because others feel uncomfortable. That is a conflict, to my mind, that is a contrivance – that is in fact something that seeks to excuse an argument, to denigrate, to weaponise against and to cause or perpetuate discrimination or stigma in the name of the idea of robust debate or a difference of views. The conflict does not come from the trans community; the conflict comes because people view the trans community as somehow different in a way that should enable them to be treated differently.