Tuesday, 23 May 2023

Motions

Energy policy

Debate resumed on motion of Lily D’Ambrosio:

That this house notes the overwhelming support at the 2022 election for the Victorian Labor government’s plan to:

(1) bring back the State Electricity Commission;

(2) reach 95 per cent renewables by 2035 and net zero by 2045;

(3) install 100 neighbourhood batteries across Victoria; and

(4) create 59,000 renewable energy jobs.

Darren CHEESEMAN (South Barwon) (18:18): It is with some pleasure that I rise this evening to speak on the State Electricity Commission motion that has been brought to this chamber. I must say over the last few sitting weeks I have heard some really outstanding and fantastic contributions from so many government MPs in this chamber.

Those contributions in so many ways have talked about the sordid history of the State Electricity Commission and indeed the Kennett government’s privatisation agenda of the mid-1990s, which in so many ways decimated Victoria’s energy system and saw it being flogged off to the highest bidder. We saw as a consequence of that our electricity generation system in so many ways standing still for the following, effectively, 30 years. We saw many, many workers, particularly through the Latrobe Valley, lose their livelihoods as a consequence of that privatisation agenda; the profits from our energy networks in fact offshored and that profit going overseas to overseas shareholders; a deskilling in so many ways of our energy system in this state; and the substantial productivity line that enabled training through the State Electricity Commission lost to this state. The reality is, as a consequence of that reform agenda of the 1990s, Victorians ended up paying a lot more for their energy. That drove up costs in household budgets, and that saw the carbonising of our economy becoming much more profound, challenging and difficult.

Very pleasingly, the Andrews Labor government has had a real zeal for reform in this space. We have that zeal for reform, because we ultimately want to see a bunch of things achieved simultaneously. The first is to see energy generation in this state, where possible, owned by Victorians, and then it is to see Victorians benefit from a jobs perspective and to decarbonise our economy and transition to a renewable energy future. That journey is important for households and it is important for our climate, but I think most importantly, it is tremendously important for maintaining our competitive advantage. Our competitive advantage historically has been that we have had in a global context relatively secure and relatively cheap energy, which has underpinned our economy, underpinned manufacturing and underpinned our household budgets. But in responding to the challenges of climate change, we need to of course transition to renewable energy, and we are in a global arms race in so many ways to do that.

I very much want to commend the Minister for Climate Action for driving this reform program and providing really profound and strong leadership in establishing an election commitment that we took to the people last year, which was that we would bring back the State Electricity Commission. Doing this enables us to transition far more aggressively to a renewable energy future than what we would have otherwise been able to do. It will mean that we will be able to in a more aggressive way move to offshore renewable energy, which of course is globally proven technology but relatively expensive. For that sector to go down that path with the Andrews Labor government – an important component to that is the re-establishment of the State Electricity Commission. If we do that and we do that well, Victoria going forward will be able to maintain its competitive advantage, a competitive advantage that it has had effectively since the 1930s, which is stable, safe, reliable and affordable energy in this state. That is why this reform is so important.

We also want to have a new reality where the employment opportunities for Victorians are met. We want to have well-paid jobs. We want to have those workers with the best skills available to drive that reform with us. Again, the State Electricity Commission, the re-formation of it, will enable us to train the workers that we need to move to a future where not only 85 per cent but 100 per cent of demand, if not higher, can be achieved and where we become ultimately an energy exporter from Victoria into other states and potentially into international markets. But for us to be able to realise those opportunities and those benefits, we need to re-establish the State Electricity Commission and we need to move as aggressively as we have sought to do.

I have no doubt that the Liberal Party in this state will continue to hold onto their historical ideology of privatisation. I have no doubt that they will maintain that rage in this place and in the other chamber. And I have no doubt that the Greens, where they can, will seek to frustrate our ambition and our agenda in this place. This is profound and bold reform. It is profound and bold reform that I know many people who were elected to represent the Andrews Labor government in this place never thought possible. It is bold and profound reform that we dreamed about, but we never thought it could be achieved. I very much am pleased to see my friend the Minister for Energy and Resources sitting at the table, who had the courage to drive this through the Andrews Labor government, drive it into our election commitments to start that profound journey that will provide the energy security that our state needs. It is responding to those modern challenges of climate change and responding to those challenges of making sure that we are training the workers of the future and making sure that profits made via this venture are owned by Victorians and that Victorians can get a strong job out of this and have an opportunity to be a part of the energy security that our state needs and our country needs to make sure that we maintain our competitive advantage going forward. This is bold reform, it is necessary reform, and I commend this motion to this chamber.

Wayne FARNHAM (Narracan) (18:28): I am pleased to rise today on the State Electricity Commission motion, and I wish the member for South Barwon was staying, because I would like to have a conversation with him about some of his commentary that we have just gone through. I think what we need to do – and probably given that I am the only person in this chamber that has actually worked at the SEC at Yallourn – is maybe go back in time to see what a future SEC will look like. A lot of you may not know, but the acronym of the SEC when I worked there was for ‘slow, easy and comfortable’. It was an inefficient beast under Labor government. It had billions and billions and billions of dollars of debt. That is why Joan Kirner sold 51 per cent of Loy Yang and that is why Joan Kirner started the privatisation of the SEC – because she recognised that under government control it was inefficient. It is interesting when we hear about the Liberal Party being the monsters of privatisation, the devils of privatisation.

Juliana Addison: Yes, you said it.

Wayne FARNHAM: We are the devils. We privatise everything.

Juliana Addison: Wayne, you are the worst.

Wayne FARNHAM: I tell you what, there are a few skeletons in your closet too. Let us go to privatisation, shall we, under a Labor government. Let us start with the Kirner government. Fifty-one per cent of Loy Yang – Labor. The State Bank of Victoria – who can forget that little chestnut – sold to Paul Keating, who then sold it to the Commonwealth Bank – Labor. Let us keep going; there are more here. $9.7 billion lease of the Port of Melbourne – Labor.

Juliana Addison: Leased! Leased! Not sold.

Wayne FARNHAM: You still sold it. The sale of the Land Titles and Registry office – Labor. You sold off the Snowy Hydro scheme – Labor. Federation Square – Labor. Partial privatisation of VicRoads – Labor. You cannot sit there and accuse a Liberal government of being the devils of privatisation, Jeff Kennett with his horns running through the place privatising everything. This government is just as guilty of privatisation. You love it just as much as we do.

Let us get back to the SEC and let us get back to jobs lost by Jeff Kennett. What about jobs lost by Labor? What about the closure of Hazelwood? Thousands of jobs in the valley gone – thousands. And just recently Opal because of hardwood – another 200 jobs gone. What about today and the disgraceful behaviour of this government to stop the native timber forest industry, which will turn communities into ghost towns – more jobs lost under this government. Before we start throwing mud, we need to look in the mirror, because you guys are just as guilty as we are.

But what I am curious about is the new SEC. We have talked about the old one. What is the new one going to look like? I am pleased the minister is here today because she may be able to answer some of my questions. Today the minister hopped up in Parliament – I am confused, so I am happy for the minister to clarify this for me today here – in question time and said it is going to be 100 per cent owned by state government. Is it going to be 100 per cent owned? Is it going to be 51 per cent owned? Is the government going to be the wholesaler or the retailer or the whole lot? I am not sure.

We heard through the election ‘We’re going to bring back the SEC; big business has ripped billions out of Victoria and taken it away.’ A lot of people invested in that big business through their super funds. They got the benefit through their super funds of those big businesses making money. Business has to make money; there is no problem with that. But what is going to happen with the other 49 per cent? That has got to go to business. I assume it is going to be 49 per cent. That is what is being said. That is going to go to superannuation funds. Superannuation funds have to make money for their members – that is legislated. So how are all the profits going to go back to Victorians when you are going to have private investment and they will want a return on their investment? It would be great for the government to clear this up, to make more clear what is actually going to happen with that. At the moment I cannot see 100 per cent of the profit being invested back into Victoria when you have private investment. It does not make sense to me at all.

We are all for a better planet. I do not think there is anyone in this chamber that says ‘We want to pollute the planet and make it worse’, all right? We do not. But what concerns me with this is that it is a bit of what we would call a nimby situation: not in my backyard. All of the renewables – all of the solar panels, the wind farms, the solar farms – go out into regional Victoria. It does not happen in the city. I have a planning application on my desk at the moment back in Warragul for 250 acres of solar panels on prime dairy country. Is this going to be the norm going forward? Are we going to have solar panels taking up prime agricultural land that feeds the state? That is where your milk comes from, down our way. That is where your beef comes from, down our way.

Lily D’Ambrosio: Doesn’t your dairy farmer agree with it? If it’s on private land, they’ve got to get agreement from the farmer. They’re getting a nice income.

Wayne FARNHAM: I tell you what, though, if it is going to be 51 per cent Victorian owned, I do not see the Victorian government on the planning application. How is it going to work? How are you going to do this going forward? This is where the government –

Dylan Wight: On a point of order, Acting Speaker, I have been guilty of this –

The ACTING SPEAKER (Paul Hamer): The member for Tarneit is not in his seat. If the member for Tarneit is in his seat, he can raise a point of order.

Dylan Wight: On a point of order, Acting Speaker, I have been guilty of this many times in this place, but I think the member for Narracan has been afforded sufficient leeway. Multiple times now in his contribution he has made reflections on the Chair, and I would just ask you to get him to direct his comments through the Chair.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Paul Hamer): Thank you, member for Tarneit. The member for Narracan shall continue and not make reflections on the Chair by referring to ‘you’.

Wayne FARNHAM: My apologies. I had not realised I had said that. What I want to see from this government is absolute clarity on how this SEC is going to work, because at the moment I do not see clarity. I do not see the Victorian public actually seeing clarity. I know they say to us, ‘The Victorian public voted for us because we’re going to bring back the SEC’, but it is actually interesting that the member for Morwell is not on that side of the chamber. He is sitting right over here in this seat. If it was so shiny, so bright and so wonderful, you would think the people of the Latrobe Valley, the heart and soul of the SEC, would have voted for Labor, but they did not. And why didn’t they? Because they are used to so many promises from this government and so many broken promises from this government that they see through it. The Greens up in Melbourne, in Richmond or wherever do not see it. They do not live there. They are not living the lives of the people in Morwell, who have been totally sacrificed by this government for the green agenda. That is what this government does. It is all about the Greens. It is not about governing for all Victorians, because if they did govern for all Victorians, they would not have shut down the timber industry today. You cannot sit here and tell me ‘We govern for all Victorians’ when you have just decimated an industry today. What I am asking the minister and the government to do is to provide clarity on the SEC and how it is going to work. Are you the wholesaler? Are you the retailer? How does the whole thing work? And how is energy going to be –

The ACTING SPEAKER (Paul Hamer): The member for Narracan should stop using the word ‘you’ because ‘you’ reflects on the Chair.

Wayne FARNHAM: Sorry, my apologies. How is it going to be cheaper with double the workforce that the energy sector has now? How are prices going to come down with twice the amount of labour: 59,000 jobs – well, 59,000 CFMEU jobs, let us be accurate. How is that going to be cheaper? When the government clarifies this, I would love to hear the answer. I would love to know how it is going to work. Yes, we want a clean environment and, yes, we want cheaper power, but we also want absolute transparency on how this SEC will work.

Jordan CRUGNALE (Bass) (18:38): I rise today to speak on our government’s plan to take decisive action on renewable energy and net zero. It is a topic close to my heart and one I speak to today. This is something that should matter for all of us, no matter what party we sit with. Our Andrews Labor government is bringing back the SEC, the State Electricity Commission, to reach 95 per cent renewables by 2035 and net zero by 2045. We will install 100 neighbourhood batteries across Victoria and in the SEC mix create 59,000 renewable energy jobs across the state. These are much-needed initiatives that will have a positive benefit for the wider Victorian community – all Victorians – and see Victoria become a leader in energy and renewables in Australia. There is an irresistible global movement towards clean energy, and the science of climate change is settled. We need to move to renewables, and we are moving to renewables. In a world where cost-of-living concerns are front and centre, our plan for neighbourhood batteries, thousands of new jobs and a State Electricity Commission, or SEC, will ensure Victorians are well prepared for the ongoing transition. Many new renters and home owners may not remember the last one. After all, it was privatised almost 30 years ago, so an entire generation has missed out. But what is clear to Victorians is that bringing it back will deliver cheaper power bills and lower emissions and put power back in the hands of Victorians. We are so proud to begin putting these plans for our future in motion.

I want to spend a moment talking about renewable energy, which is a topic of course that we never get sick of talking about on this side of the chamber. It is also something that is really important to the people of Bass, the electorate I represent. If you have ever been down that way, you would have seen the juxtaposition of the old state coalmine in Wonthaggi, which now has new energy with a lot of solar on site, backdropped by the turbines of the Wonthaggi wind farm standing tall and proud over our beautiful landscape. That wind farm is a symbol of the fact that in my area we are already seeing so much progress towards cleaner energy and a greener world. Our community gets it – they know that the world is moving on from dirty coal power, and they are embracing the clean energy future.

More recently, early works on offshore wind energy, just off the Gippsland coast, have seen millions of dollars spent in the Gippsland region, creating work in areas such as local boat operations, construction and marine maintenance. This is keeping locals in jobs close to home and doing what they love. This will only grow as offshore wind moves forward in development, creating trade jobs for everyone from electricians to construction workers and jobs for engineers, technicians, crane operators, radio operators, truckies, drivers – the sky is the limit. Then there is the supply chain and also the many opportunities created by the energy being produced – that is anything from manufacturing to food and fibre production. Of course there will be huge opportunities for our local training organisations, such as Gippsland TAFE and Federation Uni, to train up the workers of tomorrow. Having a clean energy curriculum in our schools means that we can create these pathways early and skill up our kids for good, secure and intergenerational jobs, preparing them for the world of tomorrow. That is exciting. In fact I should probably take my kids out of school and get them into trades at the moment. However, I will wait a couple of years so they can maybe finish high school.

But back to the SEC, plenty has already been said here about the SEC in other contributions, and we know that the first project will be delivered by the end of this year. It will be in Victoria and will power around 60,000 homes. We know that the publicly owned SEC will deliver 4.5 gigawatts of renewable power, which is equivalent to replacing Loy Yang A, and we know this will bring down energy prices, making life more affordable for thousands of Victorians and reducing the stress they have around paying their energy bills, a major concern for my constituents. It is also a key part of our plan to decarbonise Victoria, a plan we are already well advanced on, having already cut emissions by more than any other state since our government was elected in 2014.

As well, plenty has already been said here and in other places about the move to clean energy and climate safety. The latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report was very clear: we must drastically cut emissions if we are to have any chance of saving the world we live in and limiting warming to 1.5 degrees. Our plan for Victoria – the one we are talking about right now, including batteries, onshore wind, solar farms and all the stuff that we are doing with the Solar Homes program, the SEC and our commitment to reaching 95 per cent renewables by 2034 – will help the people of this state to play their part in limiting global warming and climate change.

There has been some criticism of our plan from members within the chambers. They have argued that the SEC has no date. That is not correct. As we have said, the first SEC project will be delivered by the end of the year. The minister at the table is the Minister for the State Electricity Commission. We have released the SEC Pioneer Investment Mandate, and I would say that is a pretty comprehensive action for something that supposedly has no date. We have already announced the interim expert advisory panel, which will provide the government with the expert energy and financial advice that is needed to steer the SEC. Their advice on the 10-year strategy and ongoing investment mandate for the SEC will be released later this year. Meanwhile the SEC will see this government partner with industry and co-investors to drive renewable energy production in the state because, as the sayings go, many hands make light work and it takes all of us to make a change.

As for the question of where the jobs will come from, that is also shortly to be addressed, with an SEC energy jobs forum to be held by the end of the financial year, bringing together unions, industry and training providers to ensure we have a strong and sustainable pipeline of workers coming through in safe, secure and meaningful jobs. The SEC has been described by those opposite as a con job and a sham, and that is not true. We have clearly set out a path for Victoria’s energy transition, and we have already taken steps on that journey. We have the backing of the people of Victoria. Now is the time, and let us channel that will, that momentum and, if you pardon the pun, that energy and get this nation-leading project underway.

Totally Renewable Phillip Island and a recently formed Totally Renewable Tenby Point are well on the way, so I am just going to talk about some of the things in my electorate. Supported by government, it is a partnership that brings change for the positive. Totally Renewable Phillip Island was formed during a public forum attended by more than 200 people. A unanimous decision was made to set an ambitious renewable energy target and a net zero carbon one as well. We have got a battery which will offer greater reliability in electricity supply for the island. It will be switched on soon and will provide a new world of renewable energy opportunities.

Looking at the Casey side of Bass, top of the pops with the Solar Homes program, we also have the Gippsland Community Power Hub that has already seen community centres from Venus Bay to Corinella outfitted with solar power. I might end with the words of the mighty Electrical Trades Union, who said this in a tweet in November last year:

Government-owned renewable energy, secure, stable jobs, and guaranteed apprenticeships, all while driving down power prices.

It’s time to bring back the SEC …

and we are.

Jess WILSON (Kew) (18:47): It is a pleasure to rise to speak on this motion as it presents an important opportunity to speak about the importance of managing our transition to net zero emissions while also making sure that Victorians can afford their electricity bills. We heard the Premier’s promise to the voters at the November election: ‘I’ll keep your electricity prices down and the lights on.’ Sounds pretty good to me. I think it probably sounds pretty good to the member for Narracan as well. Who is not in favour of cheaper and more reliable energy while also reducing our emissions? But how we actually achieve this transition will be very, very important. We have seen an incredible acceleration in our energy transition over a short amount of time, but we have to acknowledge it is going to get harder from here. It is the responsibility of government to take the least cost, most efficient pathway, not the politically convenient one. The back-to-the-future, unfunded election thought bubble that is the Andrews government’s reinstatement of the SEC should be seen for what it is: a political stunt that risks costing Victorians more in their power prices and more in their taxes and sees their hard-earned superannuation being funnelled into projects that the private sector was prepared to build.

This is all being done at a time when the Victorian Essential Services Commission has confirmed that energy prices are set to increase by more than 30 per cent for households and more than 33 per cent for small businesses – the largest energy spike in the nation. For an average Victorian household this represents a $426 annual increase. For an average small business this represents a whopping $1738 increase. On top of this, double-digit increases in gas prices are confirmed for 2023. Residential Victorian customers face increases of up to 26.7 per cent, which come on top of an average increase of more than 13 per cent since 2022. This is more than a $300 increase for the average household just to continue to cook dinner, heat their homes and have hot showers.

We know that Victorians are in the midst of a cost-of-living crisis. Cost of living is the number one issue that is raised with me in my electorate. Whether it is energy prices skyrocketing, the cost of sending your kids to school getting higher or just going to the supermarket to buy basic groceries, it is getting harder and harder to make ends meet. We are paying more and getting less, and Victorian families are getting ripped off. We have seen that today with the Andrews government handing down its budget. Just when you think things cannot get worse, we have seen a brutal budget from those opposite, with debt set to increase by 47 per cent to $171 billion and tax revenue forced to increase by 28 per cent by 2025–26.

And in the context of this budget of rising taxes, of services falling, of energy bills rising, Victorians are entitled to know how this government intends to make their lives just a little bit easier and ease the cost of power prices in their household budget. They also deserve to know how much the rebooted SEC will cost them. With no independent costing of this election policy and a so-called initial investment of $1 billion in capital from those opposite, how can Victorian taxpayers know that this will not result in them paying higher taxes as they watch another major cost blowout from this government? We have seen today the budget handed down with no clarity when it comes to the funding for the SEC. We see around $44 million over the next 12 months in operational costs but this $1 billion investment bandied around that is not in the forward estimates. It is not spelled out how this is going to be funded in the longer term. So when we are looking at the deficit and the debt, we do not understand how this government’s signature project is actually going to contribute to that.

The member for Narracan made this point earlier, but there are so many unanswered questions about the SEC. We talked about the proposed ownership structure of the SEC and how it is going to work with the so-called 51 per cent government ownership and 49 per cent private equity share. Now, as the Grattan Institute says:

… no sane investor (industry super fund or otherwise) is going to go into partnership with an organisation whose decisions are made on political whim.

How is this government planning to intervene in the retail energy market, a finely tuned 40,000 kilometres of transmission lines and cables supplying about 200 terawatt hours of electricity to businesses and households each and every year – about 9 million customers? Who will be allowed to invest? What will the rate of return be on these projects? Will taxpayers underwrite the rate of return, particularly in those early loss-making years? What sources of energy will be included? Surely government intervention is limited to instances of market failure, so sources of energy are not being built by the private sector such that the SEC needs to step in. With record investment in renewables, will the SEC be limited to firming technology to stabilise the grid as we transition? But the ultimate question for the Premier and the Minister for the State Electricity Commission, who is at the table tonight – and the government fails to answer this time and time again – is: how much will the SEC plan lower power prices?

We are at a pivotal time in our transition to clean energy. We must support the clean energy transition and reduce our emissions across the economy as fast as possible to mitigate the effects of climate change. And we have seen that incredible transition in a short amount of time. The electricity grid cannot be rebuilt overnight, but the good news is that the private sector is currently installing renewable energy faster than at any time in history, and without the help of the SEC. But we need to make sure that investment is maintained every year to 2030, and then we are going to need to double it again to 2040 and double it again to 2050. It is a huge task; it is a complete transformation of our energy grid. And it is the role of a responsible government to put in place policy settings to actually drive the transition as fast as possible while Victorians can continue to afford their electricity bills; the reinstatement of a state-owned electricity operator will not do that. Now, we know that those opposite like to paint a nostalgic picture of the SEC, but again in the words of the Grattan Institute:

Just booting up the old SEC will be about as successful as trying to use Tik-Tok on a Nokia.

The energy market in 2022 is very different to what we had in the 1990s: instead of large, government-owned, monopoly energy providers in each state, the system from Cairns to Hobart to Port Augusta is physically connected in one of the longest power systems in the world. There’s an evolving mix of new renewable generators trading energy across borders, small and large retailers servicing different customer needs, and the legacy coal generators are gradually finding they can’t compete. Financing is more sophisticated, and so are consumers. If you’ve got solar panels on your roof, you’re part of this dynamic market too.

This is why how we transition to a net zero economy actually matters. The SEC risks crowding out commercial projects that would otherwise be built. It risks a chilling effect on investment confidence and less capital flowing into Victoria. In Victoria there are more than 150 energy investment projects in the pipeline, more than 1500 megawatts of committed projects and gigawatts and gigawatts of proposed investment across solar, wind, gas and battery storage – a significant pipeline of private investment worth billions of dollars that makes the SEC’s mandate of delivering 4.5 gigawatts of power seem out of step with what is actually happening in the industry.

Just finally, we hear a lot from those opposite and they get very, very animated about privatisation, but as the member for Narracan pointed out, let us get the facts clear on Labor’s record. It was Joan Kirner who began the privatisation of Victoria’s power assets when her government sold 51 per cent of Loy Yang B in 1992, and at the same time the then SECV chairman Mr Jim Smith said:

… the rapid introduction of competition is the best way to quickly reform the electricity supply industry.

That is a key reason why SECV board and general management want to sell Loy Yang B power station and have it privately operated …

And that is just one example of those opposite privatising. We have seen across Labor governments privatisation as a hallmark of what they do, whether it was the Gillard government selling Telstra shares or whether it was the Andrews government that entered into the billion-dollar lease of the Port of Melbourne. In fact it was the Andrews government that entered into an arrangement around the sale of the Victorian share of the Snowy Hydro scheme. So let us be clear: energy privatisation was a key part of this state’s economic and fiscal recovery from the severe 1990s recession as a result of the Cain–Kirner governments. It feels like we are repeating history again. The state’s finances have collapsed.

Vicki WARD (Eltham) (18:57): Firstly, it is great to see the Minister for the State Electricity Commission here in the chamber with us, and I congratulate her office and her department for the fantastic work that they have done in terms of helping us rebuild the SEC. Now, I do have to make a comment about the idea from the member for Kew that the SEC is a whim. We are not the Greens. We actually do things in the Labor Party. We get things done on this side of the chamber. We make things happen: we invest in people and we actually achieve. So this is far more than a whim. It is actual policy, and it is policy that has got funding behind it. So, for example, we see that in the budget we have got $116 million invested in the new tech schools. Why is this important for our SEC? Because they are going to be a vital part of the pathway for us to begin the retraining for workers in the SEC. You have got to be kidding me.

Jess Wilson: Deputy Speaker, I just draw your attention to the state of the house.

Quorum formed.

Vicki WARD: It is pretty sad that those opposite do not actually want to hear about the investment that we are putting into the SEC and how we are putting together the foundations to make the SEC a reality – because it goes beyond a whim. It goes beyond wanting to restructure how energy is created in our state. It goes to creating a new economy, an economy that is focused on clean energy.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The time set down for consideration of the government business program has arrived, and I am required to interrupt business. The member will have the call the next time the motion is before the house.