Wednesday, 18 March 2026

 Katherine COPSEY (Southern Metropolitan) (12:00): (1269) My question is to the Minister for Corrections. As Ms Payne mentioned yesterday, last week the Human Rights Law Centre, Flat Out and FIGJAM released a report advocating for the end of stripsearching in all prisons. It notes that body scanning technology was supposed to reduce stripsearching yet, Minister, advocates say routine strip searches continue and are often not properly recorded. In a number of prisons – for example, Dame Phyllis Frost – it has been reported to us that scanning machines are in place but staff are not using them regularly. Minister, as you have acknowledged, public reporting on stripsearching is done for youth corrections. Why do you refuse to publish prison-by-prison data on scanner use and strip search use across all adult prisons?

 Enver ERDOGAN (Northern Metropolitan – Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation, Minister for Corrections, Minister for Youth Justice) (12:01): I thank Ms Copsey for the question. I do almost feel like this is the same question as yesterday, although I might just seek your –

The PRESIDENT: I hate paraphrasing people, because I can get it wrong. I think yesterday it was not a question about body scanning being used, so that is why I think it is a different question.

Katherine Copsey: On a point of order, President, if it assists, yes, that is the difference, but also I am asking about public reporting.

Enver ERDOGAN: I thank Ms Copsey for her question and her interest in the report. I want to thank everyone for the work that they do in our corrections system and everyone that reports on our corrections system. I have been very loud and clear in this chamber about my commitment to having a modern and effective corrections system that not only protects the community but also protects our staff and provides a pathway for those in custody to turn their lives around. That is a commitment that I want to see through, and that is why every investment we have made in our corrections system is based on those principles about a modern, effective, humane system. Investments include the investment in new technologies where they are available and where they are applicable, such as body scanning technologies. Dame Phyllis Frost, as Ms Copsey has referred to, does have state-of-the-art airport-style body scanners. But we do understand that prison environments are quite dynamic and there is a need to make sure that there are a range of options for people who are trying to prevent contraband from entering our systems or any other illegal products that may jeopardise the safety and security of staff and prisoners. All methods need to be available, including stripsearching.

Obviously, in terms of the reporting around strip searches, I did answer this question; I reflected on it yesterday. We do have a robust system of reporting for the youth justice system, which is a much smaller system than the adult corrections system – about one-fifteenth of the size of the adult corrections system in terms of the amount of people in the system. We are able to document and provide that information. In terms of the best data collection in terms of not only the demographics in our custodial facilities but body scanning or body searches, I think this is all the kind of data that I have always raised with the department. I do understand there are sometimes operational challenges in collating that data, especially when you are running a system as large as our adult correction system, with 15 premises. But it is something that I am happy to take on notice and raise with the department to see what information we can provide, because I have always been committed to full and transparent disclosure about our system.

We are very proud of the investments we have made to minimise the need for these strip searches where possible, and if there is more or better data that we can collate and provide, of course the department should be looking at doing that. We do that in YJ. It is a lot more complex in the corrections system, so I do not necessarily accept your premise that it is a choice. It is more the complexity. We still have many systems that are paper based, and obviously the reporting of that will be potentially an operational challenge for our frontline staff, who are busy keeping us safe and busy being focused on the rehabilitation of those in custody.

 Katherine COPSEY (Southern Metropolitan) (12:04): Thank you, Minister, for your contemplation of this. Surely if the government is making the investment in this technology and, as you stated yesterday, you want to see strip searches reduced to the minimum possible, it would stand to reason to check whether they are being used. A key finding of that report – and this goes to the point that you made about trying to intercept contraband and the operational demands that you have just outlined – is that less than 1 per cent of prison strip searches result in contraband being found. Body scanners are available. They are a less invasive alternative. They are less time and resource intensive. Women spoke evocatively at the report launch about the degrading and traumatising impact of strip searches. What justification does the government have for continuing that invasive, degrading and traumatising practice?

 Enver ERDOGAN (Northern Metropolitan – Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation, Minister for Corrections, Minister for Youth Justice) (12:05): I thank Ms Copsey for her supplementary question. I think I answered part of your question in my answer to the substantive – that is, these are dynamic environments and our commitment to keeping contraband out means that we need to have a wide variety of tools. But we do want to minimise the use of strip searches in general, and that is why we have invested in new technologies that mean there is less use of these invasive searches, but they are still an important option for staff, especially as the potential for strip searches, as I understand it, does have a significant deterrent effect. Removing strip searches altogether will also remove that effective deterrent, so I think it is important. We need to minimise them, but they are a deterrent. I think they do –

Katherine Copsey interjected.

Enver ERDOGAN: Taking up that interjection, they do play an important role as part of the system. I think the goal is to have –

Nick McGowan interjected.

Enver ERDOGAN: I will take up that interjection, Mr McGowan. They most definitely are not a punishment. Taking up the point that Ms Copsey made, it is actually quite burdensome for staff to undertake these searches. The use of technology is more efficient.