Wednesday, 19 November 2025

 Aiv PUGLIELLI (North-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:33): My question today is to the Minister for Youth Justice. Minister, after previously announcing that 14-year-olds will face life sentences in our state, the government has this week announced that it is adopting the Scottish model in responding to crimes committed by young people. I note that as part of the Scottish model their system bans children from being sent to prison. Consequently there are no children, to my understanding, in jail in Scotland right now. Minister, I ask: is it your government’s intention that our state will also remove all children from our jails, or do you still intend to lock up kids with life sentences?

 Enver ERDOGAN (Northern Metropolitan – Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation, Minister for Corrections, Minister for Youth Justice) (12:33): I thank Mr Puglielli for drawing comparisons between our system and Scotland’s. I think that is good to debate, because we do always look to world-leading programs. Yesterday’s announcement by the Premier and me was about ensuring we do have a system that does take early intervention seriously, gets the best examples from overseas and implements them in a Victorian model. Lived experience mentoring is one example of such programs that have worked overseas – in New York, in London and in Glasgow – that we are looking to implement right here in Melbourne. That is all about early intervention, which we are committed to.

Yesterday I did get the chance to also talk about our incarceration rate. I can confirm, for example, in the adult system, our incarceration rate is lower than Glasgow’s in Scotland. Therefore we are making big strides in terms of turning people away from crime compared to some other jurisdictions. Obviously in youth justice there is a lot more work to be done, and that is what the announcement last week was about, about serious consequences for seriously high-level harm and violence being caused to people in the community, because community safety is a priority, but also about making sure that there are early interventions.

When you talk about the Scottish model, I do look forward. I have been reading quite a bit about it and maybe I will have an opportunity to go and see it myself. But what I will say is we have a youth justice system where the primary focus is on rehabilitation. Our youth justice system operates quite differently to our custodial system. What they have in Scotland is young people are still sentenced, but they are sentenced to secure care units. When I read about their secure care units, their primary focus was on rehabilitation. It sounded very similar to our youth justice system. The numbers that they have in these secure care units are quite similar to what we have in Victoria. They have a similar incarceration rate to our Victorian model. But I am interested in world’s best practice and implementing world’s best practice in Victoria. That is what my announcement yesterday was about. I am open to ideas, so if people have good ideas, please put them through. Like I said, we are committed to early interventions as well as serious consequences for serious harm, because community safety always comes first with the Allan Labor government.

 Aiv PUGLIELLI (North-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:36): Minister, you are reading about it – ‘We are doing it, but we’re not doing it.’ Sorry, there are a few mixed messages there. Minister, as you have said, you have been reading about it. Can I ask: have you spoken to a Scottish person about the proposal?

 Enver ERDOGAN (Northern Metropolitan – Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation, Minister for Corrections, Minister for Youth Justice) (12:36): I strongly disagree with the mischaracterisation of my comments by Mr Puglielli. What I will say is we are introducing Australia’s first violence reduction unit. That is based on best practice in Scotland and London, and we are implementing it right here in Victoria. In relation to the secure care units that you asked about in your substantive question, Mr Puglielli, they are sentenced to secure care units and young people here are sent –

Renee Heath: On a point of order, President, I think the minister is confused and doing a members statement. The question was very clear: have you spoken to a Scottish person? I ask you to bring him back to the question.

The PRESIDENT: I believe that the minister was being relevant to the question. Something that strikes me is that when a question comes from the middle, there is a heap of noise usually when the minister is trying to answer in my left ear and in my right ear, but there is no noise in my middle ear here. Maybe we should all show the same respect that the people down the middle are showing when the minister is answering the question and not drown out the minister’s answer.

Enver ERDOGAN: I thank Mr Puglielli for his supplementary question. What I will say is there are experts across the field in Victoria that have spoken to and have seen the system over there. A lot of them were the experts that really guided us in terms of our approach to the violence reduction unit.

Nick McGowan: On a point of order, President, the question was very simple: have you spoken to a Scot, yes or no? I do not care whose question it is. I am happy to take the point of order. The point of order is very simple. Great Scott, have you spoken to a Scot? That is the point of order. I think I am inspired by the unicorn. Great Scott, I am asking whether the minister has spoken to a single Scot.

Members interjecting.

The PRESIDENT: This could be the longest 14 seconds of my life. The minister was being relevant.

Enver ERDOGAN: We always take advice from a range of experts and our departments who have seen the model over there and have recommended it. That is why we have adopted it – the violence reduction unit, the first of its kind in Australia right here in Victoria – because community safety always comes first.

 Aiv PUGLIELLI (North-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:39): I move:

That the minister’s response be taken into consideration on the next day of meeting.

Motion agreed to.