Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee
Eleventh Report to Parliament on Subordinate Legislation

Annual Report
concerning
Statutory Rules Series 1998

Ordered to be Printed
By Authority.  Government Printer for the State of Victoria
May 1999
No. 43 Session 1999


Appendix 4
Parliamentary Debate relating to the introduction of the Human Rights Bill (UK)

      ... Perhaps I may now express my warm welcome for the Bill as a whole. However, I must go on to express a certain unhappiness, having been involved in the field of human rights for some time. It has its delights, not least the ability of every supporter of human rights to wish to get everything, including the kitchen sink, into every step that is considered a step forward for the protection of human rights. This Bill is designed to repatriate to this country those rights which we currently have to go to Strasbourg to enforce ... When looking at the list of amendments, I ask that we consider what we are trying to do with this Bill. If it is to make enforceable in English law known rights under the covenant which are currently in force in Strasbourg, let us do that. Let us not try to protect for the time being every human right that anyone can think of.

(Lord Browne-Wilkinson, House of Lords, 18 November 1997, at 498).

      Our critics say the Bill will cede powers to Europe, will politicise the judiciary and will diminish parliamentary sovereignty. We are not ceding new powers to Europe. The United Kingdom already accepts that Strasbourg rulings bind. Next, the Bill is carefully drafted and designed to respect our traditional understanding of the separation of powers. It does so intellectually convincingly and, if I may express my high regard for the parliamentary draftsman, elegantly. The design of the Bill is to give the courts as much space as possible to protect human rights, short of a power to set aside or ignore Acts of Parliament. In the very rare cases where the higher courts will find it impossible to read and give effect to any statute in a way which is compatible with convention rights, they will be able to make a declaration of incompatibility. Then it is for Parliament to decide whether there should be remedial legislation. Parliament may, not must, and generally will, legislate... But the remedial action will not retrospectively make unlawful an act which was a lawful act – lawful since sanctioned by statute. This is the logic of the design of the Bill. It maximises the protection of human rights without trespassing on parliamentary sovereignty.

(The Lord Chancellor (Lord Irvine of Lairg), House of Lords, 3 November 1997,
at 1228).

      What is the doctrine of the separation of powers in our country? It is that judges do not interfere with the parliamentary process on the one hand and Parliament does not interfere with the judicial process on the other. That principle has stood us in enormously good stead, certainly since the Glorious Revolution more than 300 years ago. To the extent that the judges are not reflecting the jurisprudence of the convention but stating their own view about what the convention says, they are in breach of that doctrine. They are initiating new legislation. Of course, it is true that Parliament does not have to go ahead and pass that legislation. Indeed, what I fear may flow from a judicial decision of incompatibility is a long and bitter debate in Parliament about whether the judges were right and even if they were right, whether it is right to legislate.

(Lord Kingsland, House of Lords, 3 November 1997, at 1237).

      One of the many drawbacks of the current arrangements is that the convention rights are cut off from people in the United Kingdom and viewed as something alien to us. In bringing rights home, we want everyone in Britain to view the basic principles set out in the convention as part of their national heritage. We shall not achieve that by practising an internal system of apartheid, keeping the convention rights as the exclusive preserve of the courts. That way, people will continue to see those rights as separate from their daily lives, not as something intrinsic to them. It is in keeping with that principle that tribunals as well as courts are required by clause 3 to read and give effect to legislation as far as possible in a way that is compatible with the convention rights.

(Mr Mike O'Brien, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, House of Commons, 24 June 1998, at 1056).

      The Bill does not simply incorporate the convention into our law; it creates an entirely new Bill of Rights. We shall not simply bring the convention into our law and accept the jurisprudence of the European Court of Human Rights; rather, we shall effectively give British judges the right to build up a new volume of jurisprudence. Those are points that I have argued again and again, and they are the points that worry particular groups. That is why I oppose incorporation of the convention.

(Mr Edward Leigh, House of Commons, 24 June 1998, at 1073).

      Like many of my Hon. friends, I start from the standpoint that we would not necessarily have sought to incorporate the European convention into British law. As the Bill does so, however, what should it comprise? It has always been a matter of balance between the risk that incorporation would lead to interference with and frustration of the intentions of Parliament, and hence the reduction of our customary form of parliamentary sovereignty, and, on the other hand, the potential benefit that it would strengthen the ability of individuals and non-governmental organisations to take action against arbitrary, unreasonable, procedurally unfair or disproportionate action by the state or public authorities. The Bill as drafted, which restricts the rights of action to victims alone, runs the risk of not striking the right balance, and therefore not exploiting to the full the benefit that may be derived from the incorporation of convention rights.

      ...

      The Right Hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross said that breaches of fundamental rights might be relatively rare. He may be right, but I do not think that it works like that. The cases brought will not go to the heart of the fundamental right asserted in the convention, but will work at the boundaries. The main issue will be not whether the right to freedom is to be transgressed fundamentally, but what the boundary of that right is in relation to public authorities. That is a shifting boundary, which will be subject to a lot of litigation.

(Mr Andrew Lansley, House of Commons, 24 June 1998, at 1078 and 1080).

      The amendments seek to provide a right of appeal to the European Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg for the Government and for public bodies that are not satisfied with the decision of the final domestic court of appeal in any particular case. The deeper purpose is to ensure that the human rights regime set up under the Bill is one in which the human rights law that applies in the United Kingdom is Strasbourg law – the same body of law that applies to the 30 or so other member states of the Council of Europe – and not a separate body of human rights law applicable only to the United Kingdom. In other words, we do not seek – nor do we believe that it is the Government's intention – that the Bill should be used by our courts as a substitute written constitution, against which all our legislation should be tested and potentially struck down, notwithstanding that the European Court of Human Rights at Strasbourg would have found no such incompatibility.

(Mr Edward Garnier, House of Commons, 24 June 1998, at 1115).


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